The challenge is no longer simply how the conflict is perceived abroad, but whether both sides can confront the violence surrounding it honestly enough to prevent further moral and political decay.
I hear you as far as general prison abuse increases in Israel and settler violence, especially under Ben-Gvir, but like I commented (perhaps a bit too harshly) on Hamza’s article, our issue is that Kristof’s claims about dog rape are literally physically impossible and no one seems to care. He could have written an article about the actual documented abuse in Israeli prisons, but he didn’t because it wasn’t salacious enough and because he couldn’t directly say “wow they are worse than Hamas!”
There could have been a well-sourced article (not from B’Tselem and Euro-Med or from people who celebrated Oct 7 on the day it happened, but from dissident Israeli guards, court documents, public filings, moderate Palestinians, etc) that would have exposed the real abuses in the prison system with real journalism, but now that Kristof wrote his poorly sourced op-ed Israel will understandably simply circle the wagons and it will be even harder to deal with actual issues.
It feels like someone writing an op-ed about rape in US domestic prisons (which is indeed a real problem) and claiming “wow they are worse than Saddam!”
As I said in the piece, there is plenty of reason to be dubious of Euro Med Monitor, and the claims about "dog rape". (I can't believe I had to just type those words).
I think all claims should be investigated in an impartial way.
On the other hand, to say it is completely impossible ignores the historical evidence in other parts of the world such as Chile where dogs were seemingly used for such acts under General Pinochet.
The thing is, everyone who has tried in the past week to justify the article pretty much only cite the claims from Pinochet’s Chile or Klaus Barbie and ignores the experts in the past week who say it is physically biologically impossible to train a dog to penetrate someone on command. I have no idea what happened that time in Chile (maybe the dog indeed mounted the prisoner but didn’t penetrate, which would indeed be horrific, but if it happened it certainly was not the highly specific penetrating rape claim Kristof wrote.) Kristof himself tried to say in his defense there were publications that showed it could happen but all anyone could find are articles where humans raped dogs, which is definitely different.
Again, in theory I agree that realistic claims should be investigated and we should in general assume the victims are telling the truth, but some of these groups have a history of making up fantastic nonsense about Israel using animals and demons to assault Arabs, so Israel understandably does not take them seriously.
If there is actual (even if it is weak) evidence of abuse beyond anonymous accounts and people who thought Oct 7 was the greatest thing ever, Israel should indeed investigate and punish. For example, there is indeed ample evidence of some actual deprivatory abuse in Israeli prisons (not least because racist Ben-Gvir almost brags about it). However, if they investigated every unrealistic claim of skin theft, organ theft, vaporized bodies, demonic attacks, etc that was tossed at them then Israel would never get anything done. In addition, the only verifiable parts of the article have already been walked back by Olmert and Ben-Ephraim, and the only two named accusers are not credible.
I am certainly not saying there is zero sexual abuse in Israeli prisons, I am simply saying that if that is occurring, people should report on THAT instead of whatever the Kristof piece is. People need to bring actual corroboratable (sp?) evidence so others can take the baton and verify as much as they can, and then actual pressure can be brought on relevant authorities if needed, not just “some anonymous people who may have been suggested to me by a Hamas-adjacent organization told me that dogs raped me in a way never before documented in human history”.
**FYI as always I hope this isn’t coming across as an attack on you or anything (as always I follow your work daily), it’s just a frustrating topic to have to debunk. I never really wanted to have to do research on…dog’s penises smh :(
Not you too, John 💔💔💔 The claim made was that a dog was verbally commanded to mount a prisoner and penetrate him. This has never happened in the history of the world and is physiologically impossible according to multiple animal experts. That others have historically terrorized ppl with canines does not make this claim true and these libels literally get Jews killed. The NYT also did everything possible to cut the 2 year long Israeli commission off at the pass the day before they knew it would be published after passing on offers to cover it. This was an inside job in every way. Had they stuck to remotely possible claims of abuse in prisons, nobody honest would ever suggest that Israeli prisons are immune. This was a clear attempt to burry the pending report, diminish the crimes of H and libel Israel beyond all possible belief. The NYT hasn’t said a word about H’s documented sexual crimes against Gazan women. This report isn’t about protecting Gazans and never was
I love your work but this one fell flat to me. Israel’s problem is not just PR but when we had a better or more left leaning leadership and less presence in the WB, the intifadas still kept coming. The narrative that it’s once again on Israel to make all the changes is dead. The Palestinians have to reject jihadism and the thawabit principles and until they do, nothing changes. The entire humanitarian industrial complex is still set up to perpetuate all that. UNRWA needs to be dissolved. Someone like the UAE needs to help Israel administrate and deradicalize Palestinian society, all while Israel rounds up the hilltop youth and makes the haredi enlist or leave the country.
I agree, and this is the kind of peace I am seeking. Not one based on the thawabet, or any kind of jihadism but based upon peacefulness and coexistence and deradicalisation. This is the factor that can solve the challenges I talk about in the article.
Israelis have voted in multiple governments that offered peace. Each time the response was rejection and more violence. Israel forcibly dragged its living and dead citizens from Gaza and handed it to the Gazans to build a thriving enclave on a beautiful coastline. The response has been non stop aggression culminating in Oct 7th and its atrocities that were celebrated by the Gazans. What do you think can be done differently to find a solution? Your moderate voice is the exception.
I hear you as far as general prison abuse increases in Israel and settler violence, especially under Ben-Gvir, but like I commented (perhaps a bit too harshly) on Hamza’s article, our issue is that Kristof’s claims about dog rape are literally physically impossible and no one seems to care. He could have written an article about the actual documented abuse in Israeli prisons, but he didn’t because it wasn’t salacious enough and because he couldn’t directly say “wow they are worse than Hamas!”
There could have been a well-sourced article (not from B’Tselem and Euro-Med or from people who celebrated Oct 7 on the day it happened, but from dissident Israeli guards, court documents, public filings, moderate Palestinians, etc) that would have exposed the real abuses in the prison system with real journalism, but now that Kristof wrote his poorly sourced op-ed Israel will understandably simply circle the wagons and it will be even harder to deal with actual issues.
It feels like someone writing an op-ed about rape in US domestic prisons (which is indeed a real problem) and claiming “wow they are worse than Saddam!”
As I said in the piece, there is plenty of reason to be dubious of Euro Med Monitor, and the claims about "dog rape". (I can't believe I had to just type those words).
I think all claims should be investigated in an impartial way.
On the other hand, to say it is completely impossible ignores the historical evidence in other parts of the world such as Chile where dogs were seemingly used for such acts under General Pinochet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingrid_Olderock
The thing is, everyone who has tried in the past week to justify the article pretty much only cite the claims from Pinochet’s Chile or Klaus Barbie and ignores the experts in the past week who say it is physically biologically impossible to train a dog to penetrate someone on command. I have no idea what happened that time in Chile (maybe the dog indeed mounted the prisoner but didn’t penetrate, which would indeed be horrific, but if it happened it certainly was not the highly specific penetrating rape claim Kristof wrote.) Kristof himself tried to say in his defense there were publications that showed it could happen but all anyone could find are articles where humans raped dogs, which is definitely different.
Again, in theory I agree that realistic claims should be investigated and we should in general assume the victims are telling the truth, but some of these groups have a history of making up fantastic nonsense about Israel using animals and demons to assault Arabs, so Israel understandably does not take them seriously.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-related_conspiracy_theories
If there is actual (even if it is weak) evidence of abuse beyond anonymous accounts and people who thought Oct 7 was the greatest thing ever, Israel should indeed investigate and punish. For example, there is indeed ample evidence of some actual deprivatory abuse in Israeli prisons (not least because racist Ben-Gvir almost brags about it). However, if they investigated every unrealistic claim of skin theft, organ theft, vaporized bodies, demonic attacks, etc that was tossed at them then Israel would never get anything done. In addition, the only verifiable parts of the article have already been walked back by Olmert and Ben-Ephraim, and the only two named accusers are not credible.
I am certainly not saying there is zero sexual abuse in Israeli prisons, I am simply saying that if that is occurring, people should report on THAT instead of whatever the Kristof piece is. People need to bring actual corroboratable (sp?) evidence so others can take the baton and verify as much as they can, and then actual pressure can be brought on relevant authorities if needed, not just “some anonymous people who may have been suggested to me by a Hamas-adjacent organization told me that dogs raped me in a way never before documented in human history”.
https://x.com/Aizenberg55/status/2055643147716194372
**FYI as always I hope this isn’t coming across as an attack on you or anything (as always I follow your work daily), it’s just a frustrating topic to have to debunk. I never really wanted to have to do research on…dog’s penises smh :(
Not you too, John 💔💔💔 The claim made was that a dog was verbally commanded to mount a prisoner and penetrate him. This has never happened in the history of the world and is physiologically impossible according to multiple animal experts. That others have historically terrorized ppl with canines does not make this claim true and these libels literally get Jews killed. The NYT also did everything possible to cut the 2 year long Israeli commission off at the pass the day before they knew it would be published after passing on offers to cover it. This was an inside job in every way. Had they stuck to remotely possible claims of abuse in prisons, nobody honest would ever suggest that Israeli prisons are immune. This was a clear attempt to burry the pending report, diminish the crimes of H and libel Israel beyond all possible belief. The NYT hasn’t said a word about H’s documented sexual crimes against Gazan women. This report isn’t about protecting Gazans and never was
We prefer to be hated and alive.
One Hundred Years of Antisemitism and Blood Libels
https://behindthenarrative7.substack.com/p/i-accuse-the-new-york-times?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=bpnge
I love your work but this one fell flat to me. Israel’s problem is not just PR but when we had a better or more left leaning leadership and less presence in the WB, the intifadas still kept coming. The narrative that it’s once again on Israel to make all the changes is dead. The Palestinians have to reject jihadism and the thawabit principles and until they do, nothing changes. The entire humanitarian industrial complex is still set up to perpetuate all that. UNRWA needs to be dissolved. Someone like the UAE needs to help Israel administrate and deradicalize Palestinian society, all while Israel rounds up the hilltop youth and makes the haredi enlist or leave the country.
I agree, and this is the kind of peace I am seeking. Not one based on the thawabet, or any kind of jihadism but based upon peacefulness and coexistence and deradicalisation. This is the factor that can solve the challenges I talk about in the article.
Israelis have voted in multiple governments that offered peace. Each time the response was rejection and more violence. Israel forcibly dragged its living and dead citizens from Gaza and handed it to the Gazans to build a thriving enclave on a beautiful coastline. The response has been non stop aggression culminating in Oct 7th and its atrocities that were celebrated by the Gazans. What do you think can be done differently to find a solution? Your moderate voice is the exception.
There is no more rehabilitating for their reputation.
That is exactly the purpose of this sort of libel.